Curse

eudas · Sep 02, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

heroes are the best gold sink anet ever invented.

Abedeus · Sep 02, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Unless you totaly ignore their needs, like I do. The only weapons they get is gold junk that I would sell, I give them only runes that are cheap/got the from loot and they are worth little and DON'T give them greens at all.
So again, why we have 25 heroes and use 3 at one time? Soon I'll finish Nightfall campaining and I'll have 25 heroes too. Guess what is the worst (except for "get title to advance in plot" thingie) part of Nightfall? When you need to choose between Melonni and Koss. You HAVE to choose someone. What if Melonni's mission is easier, but you have a level 20 koss, while your dervish is lvl 5? Same here - The only good thing is that you get heroes at lvl 20 and you dont worry about leveling up. So don't tell me that getting heroes is ,,the easier way''. Getting a guild playing PvE-only (Im not in one) is even easier. So why A.Net didn't change it? Because players should ENJOY game. And still, will it be possible to solo DoA? No, because heroes don't know how to be a bonder. They can't manage energy. They can't spike or tank. They also can't nuke (Cynn sometimes hits a group of foes, but usually she wastes Meteor Shower on a single monster). They can't even be a BiP's! So why is it ,,easier''?!

bhavv · Sep 02, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Right now its effing taking me 40 minutes to set up one noob and his heroes.

Please for the love of god give me 7 heroes Anet and stop making me waste an hour of my life every thime I want to play the damn game.

Anet, gaile, Izzy and whoever else, you all suck balls untill you allow 7 heroes kay?

Burst Cancel · Sep 02, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

It was refirng to heroes using Orison, and yes they use it fine. This isnt GVG, its PVE with AI.

"Use it fine" is meaningless. About the only time they don't use skills "fine" is when the AI is actually glitched (e.g., not using ZB on themselves). This is like saying that Hero elementalists should carry Flare, because "they use it fine" and "this isn't GvG". The fact that it's not GvG only means that the bar for passing is lower - it doesn't make Orison any better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Every healer in every campaign uses orison. If you hate orison so much, then I guess I would be expecting you to /sign this so you can change it right?

I've wanted seven heroes since they were first introduced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Anyway, Hero monks for some reason are better at keeping a party alive with orison. I tried changing it to WoC and they dont keep themselves alive very well cos of the recharge.

Personal experience is a poor substitute for concrete evidence. "For some reason" they just do better?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Why not go and use infuse health in PVE on your heroes too then cos you use it in PVP? Surely it must be a great skill to use in PVE too right? /sarcasm

Infuse is anti-spike, and is used only when absolutely necessary, even in GvG. The reasons that Infuse is useless in PvE are: 1) spiking is rarely very "spiky", 2) the "holy trinity" obviates the need for catching spikes because all of the damage will be on the tank; pre-protting is much more efficient than infusing, and 3) Infuse has terrible efficiency. Assuming 600 health and 14 healing, Infuse sacs 300 health and heals for 402, resulting in a net increase of just 102 health for 10e, for an efficiency of 102/10 = 10.2hp/e. In GvG, the need for an enormous heal at 1/4s cast outweighs the efficiency disadvantage; in PvE, it almost never does.

Orison is bad because it's a minor heal at mediocre efficiency and 1s cast. As such, it serves no real purpose. I can't think of a situation off the top of my head where Orison is the best option. Those who use it claim it's good at "topping off bars", but this is a useless function. Someone in no danger of dying doesn't need to be healed; spend your time and energy elsewhere; especially true if you're running LoD, which raises everyone's red bars to at least 80% for a meager 5e.

To put things in perspective, let's compare against another rarely-used skill: Heal Other. At 14/10 (heal/div), Heal Other is 10e for 170+32 health at 3/4s cast; this is an efficiency of 202/10 = 20.2hp/e. Orison is 5e for 67+32 health at 1s cast; this is an efficiency of 99/5 = 19.8hp/e. Furthermore, Heal Other is a big heal, so it's actually useful in situations where a party member is about to die.

Kashrlyyk · Sep 02, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I sent an E-mail to GW support about 7 heroes and gave them a link to this thread, pretty much saying dont tell me to post it on community forums, its already there. Heres the reply:

Thank you very much for contacting the Guild Wars Customer Support Team. We always appreciate hearing from our players. After reviewing your description, we are able to confirm that the problem you have reported is a known issue and the development team is already working on an appropriate solution. However, we are going to forward your enquiry to our QA department in order to provide the development team with as much information as possible.

Also, people that suck up to gaile and Anet Devs are pure lamers. It pretty much just feeds Anet's Ego of 'Were right and our customers are wrong'.

AHhh, the "Shut up and leave us alone" answer! I´ve got that one too once. I think the problem I reported still remains.

Bryant Again · Sep 02, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Anet, gaile, Izzy and whoever else, you all suck balls untill you allow 7 heroes kay?

Quoted for failure.

DreamRunner · Sep 02, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Quoted for failure.

Oh, don't say that. You are meant to imply them to keep threads going. I had great hopes for him from when he replied to my first post, but it seems like from his previous post and the thread about him hating henchmen. That is, he is digging a hole for himself. But he might get back on track.

bhavv · Sep 02, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Excuse me for being furious when I accept a random alliance member for nundu bay HM. I wait 10 minutes for him to be ready, then when he joins with his heroes I ask him to ping builds. He pings his own which was kinda meh, but none of his heroes and asks 'Rdy to go?' I tell him no untill he pings his heroes builds. This is what he had on his monk:

Why does Anet expect me to play with other people? WHY?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

To put things in perspective, let's compare against another rarely-used skill: Heal Other. At 14/10 (heal/div), Heal Other is 10e for 170+32 health at 3/4s cast; this is an efficiency of 202/10 = 20.2hp/e. Orison is 5e for 67+32 health at 1s cast; this is an efficiency of 99/5 = 19.8hp/e. Furthermore, Heal Other is a big heal, so it's actually useful in situations where a party member is about to die.

Heal other on heroes mean they run out of energy because they spam it too much.

Vinraith · Sep 02, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Also, people that suck up to gaile and Anet Devs are pure lamers. It pretty much just feeds Anet's Ego of 'Were right and our customers are wrong'.

With comments like that I'm constantly amazed they pay any attention to these boards at all. Most user suggestions ARE rubbish, look at the amout of whining on this board and then look at the number of concrete, constructive suggestions. Then consider how many of those would screw the game up. The signal to noise ratio of useful, meaningful suggestions to everything else is appallingly low, any way you parse it. Despite that, sometimes a good idea gets through. I hope that'll be the case with a full hero party, but I'm not holding my breath.

YunSooJin · Sep 02, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

In consulate docks HM, khim uses 4 skills. RoF, orison, PS, and renew life. Throughout NF, Mhenlo uses WoH and Healing breeze when he would be much better off with LoD and no healing breeze at all.

Better hench bars have been asked for several times, Ive had a few threads on it already. But Anet arent doing anything.

And the real reason why people want 7 heroes doesnt really have anything to do with HM or NM, its because they want to use their own custom skill bars. They would find playing their own way without other people insulting them (hello orison haters) a lot more fun then being tied down to henchmen skillbars and other people that either cant play the way they want, or ask them to play in a different way.

Everyone enjoys playing the game in one way better then another. 7 heroes would allow everyone to play the way they enjoy best.

What's wrong with WoH and Healing Breeze if Orison is okay? Talk about hypocrisy ftw.

Basically, your argument is this:
I don't want to run henchmen because I want to replace their shitty bars with my shitty bars.

What is the difference really? Just play with henchmen and you'll be fine.

wolfwing · Sep 02, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

One reason I want 7 hero's is quiet simply.

Henchmen arn't the best most of the time, and their skill/bars professions arn't really usd well. So if you want a good healer you need to have a monk, if you want good mage damage you need 1-2 mages. Your quickly running out of choices. Trying to use other classes can be doable, but the henchmen arn't really going to help pickup the slack if you want to stick in a more hexing team, your not really got any choices for henchmen that will dish out the damage you need to kill the weakened enemies.

Age · Sep 02, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

The down fall of heros is that ppl treat them as they are their real hers and put runes and insignias on them.This effects the whole prices on runes and insignias from the trader or merchant.When Gwen or NF first came out it was a bad time to start a new char. in any campaign.Heros do not need runes and insignias just like henchmen don't have them.Think of others in the game no matter what campaign they have just stating out with not no much money on them when they get in Prophecies to post it is not worth going any further untill they can farm for runes and insignias.This is all around post ascalon and with loot scaling they won't get rich fast.

In otherwords there are less fortunate one then yourselfs who have more gold to throw around.Runes and Isignias are meant for real chars. not AI.

Croco Clouds · Sep 02, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Yeah I need 3 monks but I hate henchies...

Beside those henchies are 'not' too good-looking. But the female heroes look hotter

YunSooJin · Sep 02, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Heal other on heroes mean they run out of energy because they spam it too much.

More hearsay, no evidence. Looks like a common pattern is emerging.

wolfwing · Sep 02, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

The down fall of heros is that ppl treat them as they are their real hers and put runes and insignias on them.This effects the whole prices on runes and insignias from the trader or merchant.When Gwen or NF first came out it was a bad time to start a new char. in any campaign.Heros do not need runes and insignias just like henchmen don't have them.Think of others in the game no matter what campaign they have just stating out with not no much money on them when they get in Prophecies to post it is not worth going any further untill they can farm for runes and insignias.This is all around post ascalon and with loot scaling they won't get rich fast.

In otherwords there are less fortunate one then yourselfs who have more gold to throw around.Runes and Isignias are meant for real chars. not AI.

Gee this is the biggest load of bull I've ever heard. If they don't need them, then players definetly don't, geeze, it helps improve the chars, give you some extra strengths. Why wouldn't someone put runes on hero's.

shadowduck · Sep 03, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

I think that if you allow henchman in the party and have no limits on the number of henchman in a party, the same should hold true for heroes. PUGs now are mostly a waste of time, and ANet should give players the option to play how they want to.

On a different note- anyone like the new AI where heroes/hench kite at almost anything? Monks cannot heal because they are running most of the time. Just amazing Anet WTG!

wolfwing · Sep 03, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Thats really stupid and annoying to be honest, I had a thread in the suggestion board about a STAY THE **** THERE button as it really needs to be added.

wheel-of-doom · Sep 03, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Hmmmm a dead horse. I like heroes.

Burst Cancel · Sep 03, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Heal other on heroes mean they run out of energy because they spam it too much.

You're missing the point. No one uses Heal Other either, yet it's actually better than Orison in every way but recharge, where it's a whopping 1s slower. That tells you something about how bad Orison is.

Age · Sep 03, 2007, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfwing

Gee this is the biggest load of bull I've ever heard. If they don't need them, then players definetly don't, geeze, it helps improve the chars, give you some extra strengths. Why wouldn't someone put runes on hero's.

No they aren't they are just NPCs and Henchies don't have any runes on them.There is no reason to put runes on them unless you intend to play in Hero Battles but that is a mere 9% of the player base.The reason you put runes on Your Chars is if you are going to PvP with it other wise you don't need them.
It effects the prices at the rune merchant like I said it is bad time to start a new char. especially if you are new to the game you are at a disadvantage and there is loot scaling that doesn't help matters.I would pay visit and see how much runes have gone up sup vigor was at 13K and coming down now it is at 16K,Radiant was at 600 go now it is at 1K.